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Interview with Arthur Battiste


Q. "What is your definition of leadership? What is your personal philosophy of leadership?"

I just love these simple, cut-to-the-heart-of-the-chase questions. Frankly, I see little difference between these two questions. I’ll try to answer them separately, but I suspect right now that they’ll bleed into each other.

Leadership is the art of balancing the following of a vision and persuading others to follow you, in the act of following that vision. A leader is the means whereby a group can access and realize a vision that the members, collectively, do not possess. S/he is the connection between the present and the future.

The salient parts of this definition are:

Leadership is the art

of balancing

the following

of a vision

and persuading

others

to follow you

in the act of following that vision.

My personal philosophy of leadership is that it beats the hell out of watching from the sidelines. In my opportunities to speak publicly, regardless of the subject matter, I always use one of two metaphors to describe my attitude toward involvement.

The first involves the definitions of the words like and love. I define them by relating them to a sporting contest - a football game, a basketball game, a soccer game - any contest that involves team conflict and spectators.

I define like as relating to spectators, content to sit comfortably in the bleachers, be served by the concessionaires, have a program and perhaps a Walkman to pay even more attention to the proceedings down on the field, but in no way moved, challenged, driven, to be anything other than a spectator.

Love, on the other hand, is being down on the field, part of the team, in the thick of the action, working with the rest of the team to attain the goal.

I usually follow the metaphor with something like, "I know that all of you here today are not simply in like with (whatever the subject of the discussion might be) - if that were the case, you wouldn’t be here - you would have bought the tape, or the book, or read the newspaper review - you are here because you are in love with (the subject), and I know that you are just chompin’ at the bit to get down there on the field."

The second is a simpler metaphor/simile. Life/work/whatever is like a river that you come to every morning. When you get to the river, you have two choices, both of which are equally legitimate: you can sit on the bank and watch the water pass by; or, you can jump in and be part of the mainstream of action.

For my part, I find life down on the field, out in the current of life, the only place to be. And I believe that is the case for all leaders. Given a choice, a leader will likely often say that s/he would rather not lead this time, thank you. Let someone else have the thrill. Given the opportunity, a leader will not hesitate, will not ponder over the choice. S/he will just jump in and lead. It is in the nature of a leader to lead.

I take great exception to Drucker’s bean-counter’s approach to leadership, in this regard. I do not believe that (here, it is customary to use the trite phrase, to use a trite phrase, to introduce a trite phrase) it is possible to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. It is possible to develop leadership skills, to improve leadership skills - in fact, I believe that it is necessary to develop and to improve leadership skills. But, to have leadership, I believe that you have to begin with the raw material, the talent.

I watched a marvelous performance of Beethoven’s Emperor Concerto this evening. It is possible to train a great number of people, to develop and to improve their skills, to compose music. But, to write "the Emperor" requires a Beethoven, not an Art Battiste with some musical composition training.

On the other hand, if you carefully observe other people, you will come to the same conclusion that I have: that there are a great many people who are leaders. The task of the great leader is to ferret out these latent leaders, or "junior" leaders, and surround himself with them - convert them to intermediaries, sharing his vision, but following not only that vision but also himself.

Q. "What does a leader do that distinguishes her from others?"

It is not what a leader does that distinguishes her from others - it is what a leader is, that distinguishes her from others. Again, I differ fundamentally from Drucker at this point. I firmly believe that there is an essence, a persona, to leadership, a quality that resides in the nature of the leader that sets her apart from the crowd. Watch any crowd of people. All may be doing the same activity, or simply resting. When a leader walks through the crowd, watch their reactions. They follow that person, who may be doing exactly the same thing they are doing, because of something intangible that the leader has, exudes, exhales, whatever. There is an aura about a leader, a magnetism, more than just charisma, that draws others’ attention to her, and that creates a climate that is conducive to them. following her.

Q. "When you think of your own characteristics as a leader, what would you describe as skills you have gained and what would you consider traits you have always possessed?"

When I reflect on the past (much easier, but much more painful than reflecting on the future), I find three areas that I have developed, that were not within me when I first became aware of my leadership talent. Those three are consideration of others, patience, and structure/ organization. Consideration of others is a very difficult thing for a leader to learn, to develop. How many Wayne Gretzkys or Magic Johnsons are there, whose career assist numbers are close to career goal numbers? Far too few, and certainly far less than the number of leaders.

This is a characteristic that I believe is not usually found in the same bag with the rest of the leadership talent. Patience is essential for a leader to be consistently successful. But patience is the most difficult thing for a leader to practice.

Structure/organization is a (a dual) characteristic that I have observed is far more often missing than present in a leader’s kit bag. There is no easy way to get this characteristic, if it isn’t there by nature or by tendency. It has to be learned, and the learning doesn’t come easily.

With respect to leadership characteristics that I have always (or, for as long as I can remember - and that goes back to early elementary school) had, these include:

  • the ability to speak and/or to perform in public, along with the desire to do so;
  • the ability to persuade others of my point of view, and to persuade them to pursue my goals;
  • the ability to motivate others to action;
  • the ability to envision;
  • the ability to translate my vision to the language and for the understanding of others;
  • the ability to make decisions, and the ability to amend those decisions to fit in with amendments to either vision or current realities;
  • the tendency to lead, to jump onto the field and take charge (or take influence, perhaps); and
  • the need to be in the lead, to feel the thrill and the power both of persuading others to follow and of being followed.
  1. "How would you characterize your style of leadership?"

I would characterize my style of leadership as both deliberate and charismatic.

Q. "Do you think gender and race affect leadership? If so, how?"

You bet they do! And so do economic and social circumstance. And looks, and personality, and clothing, etc., etc. Everything that is characteristic of person, time, circumstance, and place affects leadership.

Perhaps I was being a bit cute. I believe that you meant do I think that not being a white male renders someone less likely to be a leader, or less likely to be a successful leader. The answer is NO!

Was Christ white? No. Was Mahatma Ghandi white? No. Was Joan of Arc male? No. Was Catherine the Great male? No. Was Malcolm X white? No. Was Eleanor Roosevelt male? No!

There is no question that, without some inherent requirement for being followed, some groups are more difficult to lead than others. But, I believe completely that only a leader’s inner won’t power can stop him from leading for reasons of gender or race. If I believe that because I am a white male (about which I could get some argument - at least one of my ancestors was North American Indian; and, when I belonged to an Italian organization in Halifax for a while, a great deal of time was spent by that group’s leadership trying to convince the membership that Italians are a colored race) I cannot lead certain groups, or in certain situations, then I won’t be able to.

Q. "Do you believe the saying that 'Women fear success'?"

Firstly, it must be either a lot older or a lot younger than I am, because I really haven’t heard it - applied to only women, that is. I believe that we all fear success - and crave it.

I often tell the following story to illustrate the difference between the Canadian approach to business and the American approach. (This is more easily understood and appreciated on the East Coast, but it works inland, too.):

A couple from Europe were visiting the New England States for the first time. Stopping at a seaside village, they went for a walk along the shore, and came to a shack where there was a sign that read "Fish and Lobsters For Sale". In front of the shack were two medium-sized containers filled with water: the first one, which had a lid weighted down by a large stone, sounded as though there was a violent struggle going on inside; the other one, which was silent, was just open. The sign above each read, "Lobsters".

The couple asked the old gentleman in the shack the reason for the difference between the two containers. "It’s simple", he said, "in the container with the lid are American lobsters. They are always trying to get out, and if I didn’t have the lid on, and it weighed down with a big stone, they would surely escape and disappear back into the sea."

"But, what about the other container", the couple asked, "there’s no lid on it at all, and there doesn’t appear to be anything active in the water. Have the lobsters all escaped?" "Nope", said the old gent, "those are Canadian lobsters. There are plenty in the container, and they’re all plump and tasty. But there’s no danger that any of them’ll ever escape. You see, whenever one of them, for whatever reason, gets it in his head that he’s going to climb out, the others just grab hold of him and drag him back down under the water."

Success brings with it two liabilities: the first is that success takes us out of the norm, out of mediocrity; and, the second is that we can’t go back. It’s comfortable back down there, and a lot of our family and friends are there. And, more often than not, they tried to keep us down there with them. But now, we are successful - and they’re not. A leader, a successful person, by definition is no longer "just part of the crowd". And not everybody wants to no longer be part of the crowd.

Q. "What are the most important issues facing women and minorities today?"

  • the fear that success will take them out of their comfortable surroundings as a member of a minority group;
  • an education system that does not prepare them to be leaders, only followers;
  • regarding being a woman or a member of another minority group as a problem, rather than as an opportunity.

 

Q. "Family Issues: Do you receive family support? How do you manage

schedules? Make decisions when conflict arises? Children issues?"

I have been blessed with the most understanding, loyal, and supportive spouse and family in the world. I have still managed, through the years, to take them for granted . . . part of that lack of consideration that I slowly corrected.

Schedules are managed by more luck than good planning, although a bit of that doesn’t hurt, from time to time. There have been few times, during the 31 years of our marriage and our 28 years of parenting (since our eldest was born) that one of us wasn’t able to be available whenever we were needed. There have been times when the wrong one of us was available, but that is impossible to plan for.

When conflict between schedules, or more importantly careers, arises, we work the conflict out, together, as best we can. When we married, both of us were pursuing successful professional careers. This worked just fine. When we became pregnant with our first child, my wife decided that she would not continue with her career until our youngest (of some as then undetermined number) was in school. She kept to that commitment - in my mind, the most heroic act I have ever seen. There were many days when I am sure that she questioned the wisdom, possibly even the sanity, of her decision. When our youngest was in school, she resumed - bad word, re-started is a better one - her career, and has built an even more successful one, at least, in my eyes. She now commutes by car 90 miles to work each day - and 90 miles back home. She's truly a superwoman!

The children issues are, of course, the most complicated ones. To illustrate how times have changed, however, our second (of four - girl, girl, boy, boy) children gave birth to her first child, our second grandson, 4 years ago. She is living at home. I had just returned from Halifax, and was beginning the search for new contract work, new opportunities in business. My wife was working on a contract that finished at the end of that year. I made the decision to stay home and work out of home and around town, so to say, until my daughter could get herself re-established and re-oriented. She’s working on her second degree in Nursing, now, and still at home. I learned a whole new way of living and working - and experiencing a part of a child’s life that I was too busy to catch when my own children were infants - it was a tremendously exciting and exhilarating year!

Q. "Who do you consider to be great leaders? Why?"

I have already mentioned some of them - Christ, Ghandi, Joan of Arc, Malcolm X, Catherine the Great, Eleanor Roosevelt; there are many others: Kennedy, Bill Gates, Margaret Thatcher, and so on and on. But, these are "great" leaders. I think that, openly viewed, the list of great leaders will be about the same for most people in our North American society. Differences of race, gender, politics, religion, etc., will color a lot of perceptions of who should be on the list, but the average will likely work itself out to be about the same.

These people are great leaders because their leadership has made a difference on a global scale.

Q. "Who have been influential people for you in terms of leadership?"

My father was probably the most influential person in my life, in terms of leadership. In political life, community, religion, work, and family life he was a true leader. To me he was the greatest leader I have ever known.

My wife has inspired me for decades. This woman raised our family, moved our household five times across the country, maintained her sanity, left a promising career, re-started her career, taught herself computer skills to a high degree, is sought after as an information specialist, all the while suffering with SLE (systemic lupus erythematosus) which has taken the lives of more than a score of other lupus victims in the lupus self-help group she founded, and she has managed to grind her disease down to the point where her health is exceptional - except every day, in the morning I check, just to make sure.

Over the years in my career, I have been fortunate enough to have eight "mentors" who have helped me, have guided my career development. Most of these people were conscious of their role as mentor, although one or two were not. And in all cases, I became at least a subordinate, more often a colleague.

Q. "To what do you attribute your success?"

My parents; my education; my drive.

My parents raised me with the attitude that achievement is good, that excellence is an end in itself.

My education, especially my first seven years at St. Edward’s Parochial School in Carlsbad, New Mexico (also my mother’s alma mater), but also my eighth year of elementary and my high school years in a private (that is, non-tax-supported tuition-based Catholic) school system in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, stressed excellence. I was taught that the only worthwhile goal is excellence. I learned later in life that excellence may have different definitions for different persons, but it always means "the best that you can be". Probably because of my parents and my schooling, I have a drive within me that won’t let me not lead, won’t let me not shoot for the top. As I mentioned earlier, I have learned patience and consideration, so I am perhaps more deliberate about what I do and how I do it, but my goals are still the same.

Q. "How did you learn leadership?"

I didn’t learn leadership; leadership can't be learned.

Q. "What are some of the most important lessons about leadership you have learned?"

  • The most important leadership lesson I have learned is that it is people I lead, not just followers.
  • The second most important lesson I have learned is that the best followers are, themselves, leaders, and they are the best people to have around you.
  • The third most important lesson I have learned is that a leader is not only visible to his/her followers, but also to those who would make of her/him a target.
  • The fourth most important lesson I have learned is that power comes not only from within, but also from without; and authority comes exclusively from without - it is of the utmost importance to recognize and respect this lesson.
  • The fifth most important lesson I have learned is that there are things that are far more important than being in charge, than being in the lead - sometimes just being is the most important thing in the world.
  1. "What are some of the personal rewards you experience as a leader?"
  • Respect;
  • Power or Influence on/in decisions that really matter;
  • Material rewards;
  • Authority;
  • "The roar of the greasepaint, the smell of the crowd" (or, you can have it the original way, if you prefer) - the excitement of being there! and,
  • At night, the feeling that you have done something that has made a difference!
  1. "What is the most difficult aspect of being a leader for you?"

The "in-between" times, when I’m not actively leading something. These are the times that I get actively involved in my community, when I go out and find something to lead.

  1. "Do you have any regrets (sacrifices made) about your decisions as a leader?"

No.

  1. "What are your goals and ambitions?"

Those are far less important to me now than they were even a couple of years ago. Now, I am overcome with a need to give back to the community, to the world, what it has given me, to share what I have learned. Accompanying this is a wish to make more money than I ever have, but that is less important, and probably the result of having been a civil servant for so long.

Q. "What advice do you have for today's leadership student?"

Quickly, get the period of your life known as "leadership student" over with and get out there and be a leader! We have far too many people who study leadership, and far too few who are great leaders. You have the choice to be one or the other - make it!

Q. "What advice do you have for men who will work with women and minorities in leadership roles in the future?"

  • Work hard.
  • Don’t lose the vision that guides you.
  • Remember that you are leading people, not just followers.
  • Remember that power comes not only from within yourself, but also from without - the synergistic effect of combining internal and external power is one of the greatest talents of a true leader.
  • Surround yourself with other leaders, not just followers.
  • Love, honor, and respect your family.
  • Have a happy life.

I don’t mean to sound flippant, but I have no different advice for these (why only men?) men than I have for women who find themselves in like roles, or than I have for members of minorities who find themselves in like roles. If the group with whom we will work makes a difference to our leadership, we aren’t leading!



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